Verse Forty Seven

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From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008

Verse Forty Seven
Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English, 1972

Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The farther you go, the less you know.
Thus the sage knows without traveling;
He sees without looking;
He works without doing.

Verse Forty Seven
Witter Bynner, 1944

There is no need to run outside
For better seeing,
Nor to peer from a window. Rather abide
At the center of your being;
For the more you leave it, the less you learn.
Search your heart and see
If he is wise who takes each turn:
The way to do is to be.

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From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008

You can see the whole world inside a paper bag, and you will see the same design wherever you are, wherever you go.

"Abide at the center of your being." "The more you leave it, the less you learn."

Witter Bynner puts in such clear and simple language. "The way to do is to be."

Jim

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From: Janet
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008

sometimes it may be necessary to leave it, only to realize where its always been.

an important point to remember, as told, when looking for a Home is: "location, location, location"!

love,
janet

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From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008

Hello Janet,

I agree with you. There's one location that is very easy to overlook. I don't know if I would have said abide at the center of your being. It's more like notice the center of your being. You can't really leave home, but you can be under the illusion that you have. I like the line about the more you leave home, the less you learn. But it's not really about learning information. It's about learning to notice, to see. Anyway, you don't have to go anywhere to learn (see) all that can be learned about the Subject. See it once, and you've seen it for good. From here on out it's always available. I think that when you see at once, you're bound to see it again. You are hooked! Maybe it should come with a warning label.

The farther you travel, the less you know. That's really what happens to a lot of us. We accumulate information and theories, and we become more confused. We try to put into words what is really a picture, a picture of the Tao, of our original face. You can't understand a picture in words, but you can go on talking about it forever. Sometimes it can be satisfying to talk about it, but you never really know until you see it!

Love, Jim

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From: Janet

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008

jimclatfelter wrote: Hello Janet,
I like the line about the more you leave home, the less you learn.
The farther you travel, the less you know. Love, Jim hi jim, /p>

i think there is agreement of this experience, but i see it as natural to experience. it is TAO -nature. if it were not so, how would you know This Home, right Here?

in my own experience, it was not only natural, it was the learning experience itself. i did not know of all these traditions of learning. the more i learned, the more i found there was to learn (as more and more unfolded), until one day i realized i still don't know. it brought me right back to This, the place i've never left. it was clear that where i began was where its at. i was aware of it, but kept thinking there was something more....something i'm suppose to know. so, leaving and learning came full circle. it was the best thing that ever happened. this is TAO.

TAO doesn't judge. i think you said that perfectly in the previous verse's response.

so, why would anyone want to try and correct the way TAO works for our lives?

i think i keep seeing the experience knocked, like it was a list of mistakes to avoid or something.

its perfect, and works in perfect order.

love,
janet

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From: Janet
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008

if you have already read my previous post to jim, above, i would also add that in the previous verse, the example of horses working in the fertilized fields, and horses being bred in the outskirts, are a reflection of the human experience in this current verse. its TAO (or nature) taking its course for the One and Many. rejecting this nature only fuels it. meaning, there is a feeling of necessity for the horses to be bred in the outskirts. rather -accept this nature, and unresisted, the horses return to the fertilized field of their own voilition. same with humans. don't make bad or good. just accept this nature (TAO), and its unfolding itself.

or something like that. thats how it appeared to me, and how its expressed.

love,
janet

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From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008

Hello Janet,

I find it difficult not to make bad and good. I accept that they are my own judgments, but judgments are natural also. How else can I vote in elections if I don't make judgments? Don't I have to determine that voting one way is bad and voting the other is good - or at least that one way is better than the other? I realize that my vote may be different from another's vote. My vote is natural. Your vote is natural. Everything that is is natural, isn't it? Where do I draw the line between what is natural and what isn't? How do good and bad fit into this?

Love,
Jim

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From: Janet
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008

jimclatfelter wrote:
Everything that is is natural, isn't it? Where do I draw the line between what is natural and what isn't? How do good and bad fit into this?

you are right jim, everything that is, is natural. there is no line or judgement in tao. but, i'm starting to think that all of you think that because you follow tao/headlessness that 'you know how everything suppose to be'. i have no idea how its suppose to be. so how does anyone? everything -just is, as it is. 'good/bad' are just ideas based on our own perception.

you use the election as an example, which is really hard to relate to what i was trying to say, but i'll try to explain it...... humans do have preferences for what they want based on their ideas of good and bad. to me, it seems life unfolds, as it will, regardless of our preferences and has no preference of its own.

sure we participate. we vote. we work. we even cut off some heads in workshops. but, really, was it us, or was everything just ripe to be, of itself, in the moment?

do you know?

i don't know....

anyway, i'm just trying to describe what it is for me. either, my thinking is way ahead of its time, or i'm the dumbest one on earth. we can vote on it later.

i don't know how else to explain it.

love,
janet

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From: jimclatfelter
Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008

Quoting Janet: i'm starting to think that all of you think that because you follow tao/headlessness that 'you know how everything suppose to be'.

Hello Janet,

It's unfortunate that we are giving that impression. I certainly don't know how everything is supposed to be. I don't think it's supposed to be any particular way of all. It's just the way it is. Sometimes I like the way it is. Sometimes I'd prefer that things were different. I think you're saying that things happen on their own in their own good time, happening when the time is ripe. That's what I think too. Anyway the next verse deals with this subject.

I'm probably not understanding the points you are making. Are you saying that it's better to have no preferences? Are you saying that life is giving us what we need?

Anyway, I don't know how things are supposed to be, if they're supposed to be the way they are or they just are the way they are. Maybe there's no difference between the two ideas. We do what we do, and we get what we get. And that includes all the conflict in our lives and in the world. Is it supposed to be that way? I don't know, but it is that way.

Love,
Jim

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From: Janet
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008

jimclatfelter wrote:

Hello Janet,
I think you're saying that things happen on their own in their own good time, happening when the time is ripe. That's what I think too.

Anyway, I don't know how things are supposed to be, if they're supposed to be the way they are or they just are the way they are. Maybe there's no difference between the two ideas. We do what we do, and we get what we get. And that includes all the conflict in our lives and in the world. Is it supposed to be that way? I don't know, but it is that way.

hi jim,

yeah, thats probably what i'm trying to say. anyway, i'll read the next verse and reply when i do.

love to you,
janet

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